Saturday, December 22, 2007

Suggestion Box

Examiningcalvinism.com is a Verse by Verse answer to Calvinism.
Please feel free to offer constructive feedback, but please limit it to something related to the subject matter linked above, rather than just a general theological impression. So if you feel that certain key points were overlooked in the linked articles, or that better questions could have been posed, or if you have additional quotes that you would like included for discussion, please feel free to provide them here, so that I may incorporate them.

Sincerely,

Richard Coords

12 comments:

Godismyjudge said...

Hi Richard,

Regarding Gen:20:6

Nice article. Calvinists like answering the question, why does God permit sin, but not the question why does God have the option of permitting sin. One question you may want to ask is: if there is no libertarian freewill, how is it that God has the option of decreeing sin? Where did that option come from, if not man's freewill? God?

That question should move the focus away from how God uses the sin to where did it come from. We agree about how God uses sin. God uses sin to accomplish His purposes. Further, we agree that God could have prevented the fall, but didn't. These aren't the issue. We don't agree about where sin comes from. Arminians think sin originates from man, Calvinists imply that it originates from God.

A Calvinist might say Abimelech was born depraved because of Adam, so that's why God could decree for Abimelech to sin. But Adam wasn't created depraved. God Himself declared Adam good. So if Adam didn't have libertarian freewill, God must have been the source of Adam's sin.

Dan

www.examiningcalvinism.com said...

Done

http://www.examiningcalvinism.com/files/OT/Gen20_6.html

Let me know if you approve.

Pizza Man said...

Just ran across your blog...This is more of a request than suggestion: Do you know of any good Arminian sites with free mp3s?

I'm currently commuting 4.5 hours twice a week and would love to find some good sermons to listen too on the road.

A side note here: Unfortunately the sermonaudio.com site is exclusive to the Reformed view. 158,000 sermons, and apparently not room for one from an Arminian. A search for "Arminianism" brings up 5 pages of links, all hostile.

-Kevin

www.examiningcalvinism.com said...

Hey Kevin,

http://www.lwf.org/site/PageServer

I recommend Adrian Rogers.

Whenever I have to make a long trip, I love to listen to sermons by Adrian Rogers, and he has one terrific sermon on the Calvinism controversy:

Let the Earth Hear His Voice

https://secure2.convio.net/lwfm/site/Ecommerce/1529894781?VIEW_PRODUCT=true&product_id=1265&store_id=1121

Also, Adrian Rogers did a terrific series on Romans:

https://secure2.convio.net/lwfm/site/Ecommerce/347959161?store_id=1121

Pizza Man said...

Thanks for the links Richard. Here's another site I found with a few sermons.

http://www.imarc.cc/audio/audiodex.html

The one from Dr. Walls was excellent. "Calvinism and the Wesleyan Message"

Luke said...

Richard,
Just wanted to make sure you were still alive. I keep checking for a new blog post and leave an electronic footprint but wanted to leave a fingerprint this time. Hope all is well and look forward to your next post.

Troy Crider said...

pizza man,

There is an excellent lecture series called "God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Salvation." The name of each lecture are as follows:

1. The Case for Calvinism
2. The Case for Calvinism Critiqued Part 1
3. The Case for Calvinism Critiqued Part 2
4. The Sovereignty of God, Part 1
5. The Sovereignty of God, Part 2
6. The Sovereignty of God, Part 3
7. Reasoning from Scripture
8. Calvinist Challenges Answered, Part1
9. Calvinist Challenges Answered, Part 2

Go to www.thenarrowpath.com and then to the topical lectures page.

Troy Crider said...

Pizza man,

Also if you want to hear a more lengthier treatment on Romans 9 by Steve Gregg where he devotes more time on this chapter than in his lecture series, go to his verse by verse page and then to Romans 9.

www.examiningcalvinism.com said...

Wow Troy,

Thanks for the links, which I will certainly link to the website. In fact, I will now add an "audio section" to the website, linking his audio series.

So far, I'm in the first part of the audio series, and I'd like to say that the speaker is doing a tremendous and fair job in explaining the Calvinism / Arminian controversy.

My initial feedback is that although the Puritans, as we are informed by Calvinists, were Calvinists, this is not necessarily the whole truth. The fact is that one of the best refutations of Calvinism, perhaps ever, was done by a Puritan, John Goodwin, in his book, Redemption Redeemed. Here is a link to his book, and though it is difficult reading (old English style of complex run-on sentences), there are some terrific points raised, which I've added in several places in the "verse by verse" section of the website.

Here is the link:

http://www.examiningcalvinism.com/files/RollCall/Goodwin.html

Again, thanks Troy.

Also thank you Kevin, for the link which I will also add to the website. Also, to Kevin and Luke, I had requested that Brian add you both to the SEA google group. I'm not sure if Brian followed up on that. There seems to be a puzzling amount of red tape in joining SEA. In any case, I have found it to be very helpful.

www.examiningcalvinism.com said...

Kevin,

I checked and now see that you've made it to SEA. What are your thoughts on the group?

Troy said...

Love your site. Lots of valuable information. Since you are a baptist, are you 5 point osas arminian, unlike many other baptists who are 2 point arminian and 2 point calvinist? So this article addresses this issue...
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/choosingatheology.htm

rodgertutt said...

CALVINISM VERSUS ARMINIANISM

Calvinism, Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism

Which view of salvation is true?

These two links respond to that question.

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY – J.Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

Calvinism is a cruel and unloving profanity.

Arminianism is a proud and self-righteous profanity.

Calvinism is cruel and unloving because it claims that God allows beings to come into existence that deserve to suffer endlessly, and will suffer endlessly, except for a few that God will rescue from such a fate by His irresistible grace.

Aminianism is proud and self-righteous because it claims that only those who receive the proper information, and act on it properly before they die, will avoid suffering endlessly. They claim that God is unable to successfully influence anyone's will, unless they let Him.

The Calvinist's god allows millions of beings to come into existence and either cannot, or will not, do anything to stop them from suffering forever.

The Arminian's god lets us down just when we need Him the most. Our greatest need is a change in our stubborn will. The Arminian god either cannot, or will not meet us, on this, the level of our greatest need.

A profanity is an idea conceived by our sinful hearts. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are profanities. Against the black background of these profanities God will paint the glorious masterpiece of universal transformation.

The truth of universal transformation solves all of the irreconcilable differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. It recognizes that our "free will" is the freedom to choose only in the direction of the strongest influence, and that God is in intimate sovereign control over all influences.

Each person is being fitted into God's master-plan in God's own special way for them. Each person responds to their own unique set of "strongest influences." And ultimately, when the time period of the ages has ended, God will have transformed the consequences of everyone's choices into something glorifying to Himself, and beneficial to the chooser.

It is unavoidable that how we think about God will affect our state of being. We tend to become like the god we worship. The one who puts their faith in Calvinism, tends to become cruel and unloving. The one who puts their faith in Arminianism, tends to become proud and self-righteous. If a Calvinist is not cruel and unloving, or, if an Arminian is not proud and self-righteous, it is entirely due to the intervention of God's undefeatable grace through Christ. God often operates through people in spite of what they believe.

God's grace can only be resisted if God wants to teach us lessons that could be learned no other way. But ultimately, God's grace is undefeatable.

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are built upon the false foundation of "endless hell." When this foundation has been replaced, the differences between them become irrelevant.

The profanity of the doctrine of "endless suffering in hell" is also part of the black background upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece. Without fail, God will, in due time, transform all deceptions, delusions, and false doctrines, into something better that they temporarily prevailed than if they had not. And He will do this for everyone, without exception.

Calvinism, Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism
WHICH VIEW OF SALVATION IS TRUE?

These two links respond to that question.

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY – J.Preston Eby
http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

Copy And paste into Google
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
or
THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY

THE WORLD’S MOST EVIL BELIEFS – IMHO
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

The world’s most evil beliefs & the most important issue

The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

The god that Arminian Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

The god that Calvinistic Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)

And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering (Arminian) or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist)!!

Thank God the Bible does not teach such insane ideas!
http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm
http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

Copy and paste one of the following titles into Google
SAVIOR OF THE WORLD SERIES EBY
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY

Anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to about what the Bible teaches.

I'm just so glad I learned about the following information.
It enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78.
I'm 70 now.
I, and many others with whom I have become acquainted, simply could not successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone suffer forever. Here is the testimony of Charles Slagle who went insane for the same reasons that I did.
Copy and paste the following title into Google
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST or click on
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html
http://www.sigler.org/slagle/absolute.htm

Eternal Torment Calvinism, Eternal Torment Arminianism, Annihilation, or Christian Biblical Universalism.

Which one of the four is the truth?

This debate nearly always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable
than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate.

If readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His
creatures suffer forever or annihilate them, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their
greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like
them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE

The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the other Greek scholars quoted in
chapters three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.

IMHO these findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold.
But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.

Just Google up AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS and enjoy, or click on
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

• Christian Biblical Universalism versus Annihilation
• http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html
• Bible Threatenings Explained
• http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
• Universal Salvation University
• http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm